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the living dinosaur

This is a discussion on the living dinosaur within the Science General Discussion forums, part of the Science category; While the main goal of this thread is to show that dinosaurs may still be alive today, I will start ...

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    Senior Member Christian Soldier's Avatar
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    Default the living dinosaur

    While the main goal of this thread is to show that dinosaurs may still be alive today, I will start by showing that they lived together. This is most likely going to be my final thread, since school has started back for me and has held me up from putting this thread on.

    So lets start with just this, artwork. I know this has been presented before and such, but lets just get a better look at some of it. Much of it has patterns on it. Now many animals today have patterns on their skin. Now if they drew patterns that where on the skin, then how could they have done this unless they were alive? Also, why would they put images of themselves on dinosaurs, with dinosaurs, or killing dinosaurs? I have some sources for you guys to go over at the end. Now then, here is our argument that they may still be alive, that the most recent people to make dinosaur statues where alive in the 1900s. Now if they were still alive when Alexander the great was(as he mentioned his soldiers were scared by dragons AKA, dinosaurs), then why couldn’t they have made it another hundred years? I mean if they can make it that long, it would seem they could. Also, don’t forget about an old favorite, the loch ness monster. It would be nothing more than a plesiosaur like dinosaur. Also, lets not forget about the Mokele-mbembe, see more on it at http://www.mokelembembe.com/ and that site has some more sources as well. Also, how could I forget all the reported sightings? Here is some of them http://www.answersingenesis.org/crea.../i1/living.asp Here is some more artwork stuff and more on what I have already said. http://www.genesispark.com/genpark/ancient/ancient.htm I had this much better explained and everything, but alas computer problems are not an easy thing to fix, and when your saved documents start disappearing, its no exception. That's why I am putting this up now, so that it won't get deleted. This is just a shortened rewritten version of what I already had. I may remember some stuff along and along as this thread is debated and fought over and such, but as of now, just this and these sources are all I can remember. I should note though, that these sources may have strengthened my ideas on this, but they did not cause it. I thought that they may be alive before I read all of these. So here are my other sources. If I remember anything more, Ill add it to the thread later.

    Here is the only source I didn’t include in the main body. http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...vind+seminar+3 Some of you may have seen it before, some of you may not. Either way, just know that it’s a source.
    It is hard to bear the torch of truth through a crowd without singeing someones beard.

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    Senior Member choSenfroZen's Avatar
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    Default Re: the living dinosaur

    CS

    start here
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Instinct_for_Dragons

    "The origin of Chinese dragon is not certain, but some scholars believe that it originated from totems of different tribes in China. Some have suggested that it comes from a stylized depiction of existing animals, such as snakes, fish, or crocodiles. For example, the Banpo site of the Yangshao culture in Shaanxi featured an elongated, snake-like fish motif. The theory of snakes or fish as the origin of the Chinese dragon is not widely accepted.

    An alternative view, advocated by He Xin, is that the early dragon depicted a species of crocodile. Specifically, Crocodylus porosus, which is the largest living reptile. The crocodile is known to be able to accurately sense changes in air pressure, and be able to sense coming rain. This may have been the origin of the dragon's mythical attributes in controlling the weather, especially the rain. The association with the crocodile is also supported by the view in ancient times that large crocodiles are a variety of dragon. For example, in the Story of Zhou Chu, about the life of a Jin Dynasty warrior, he is said to have killed a "dragon" that infested the waters of his home village, which appears to have been a crocodile."

    The dragons from around the world are nothing more than stylized depictions of predators
    that exist. The romans brought large reptiles for viewing and fighting, they called them dragons.
    Dragons seem to have come from exaggerated myths about huge snakes, lizards or other reptiles.

    I have been to Loch Ness, it is a pretty small lake to hide something like a dinosaur, and they have looked
    a lot. Canada has a monster in Okanagan Lake, probably schools of lake sturgeons. Lake Champlain in New York state has a monster as well. I swam there as well, even did my water landing for my skydiving in
    there, sorry no monster, and they have been looking.
    " Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? "
    - Epicurus

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    Default Re: the living dinosaur

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Soldier View Post
    Now if they were still alive when Alexander the great was(as he mentioned his soldiers were scared by dragons AKA, dinosaurs), then why couldn’t they have made it another hundred years?
    Out of curiousity, what's your source on Alexander encountering 'dragons?' Some of the legends about him, such as those found in the 'Alexander Romance,' ought not to be taken as truthful accounts of historical events (and I'm sure you'll agree with me on that, unless you've taken to worshipping the god Zeus-Ammon and whatnot). One of the least fantastical sources on him is the 'Life of Alexander' by Plutarch, in which the author warns his readers that what they read is not necessarily true factually, but still true to the character of Alexander. Watch your step...

    By the way, since you're trying to say that dinosaurs are still with us, it may be helpful to define the term 'dinosaur.'
    "Dimidium facti qui coepit habet: sapere aude: incipe." --Quintus Horatius Flaccus

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    Default Re: the living dinosaur

    Your sources, "Answers in Genesis" and "Genesis Park", are not exactly bulwarks of scientific research, or scientific method, or scientific understanding, or scientific anything. Frankly, I can't believe I'm replying to twaddle like this.

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    Default Re: the living dinosaur

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Soldier View Post
    While the main goal of this thread is to show that dinosaurs may still be alive today, I will start by showing that they lived together.
    That who lived together? Mr & Mrs Dinosaur? Or are you claiming to present evidence that humans and dinosaurs lived together? You're going to have to be a lot more specific in your claims. Are you claiming that humans existed before the dinosaurs went extinct approximately 65,000,000 years ago? Are you claiming that dinosaurs are not extinct? Could you be more specific about what you are referring to as dinosaurs? Are you claiming that a few individual animals have somehow managed to survive in remote locations for millions of years or that viable colonies or populations of dinosaurs somehow survive without leaving any tangible signs of their existence (verified sightings, remains, droppings, etc)?

    I can't look at your "sources" until I get home but I hope they contain links to some actual research and not just the usual unsubstantiated bullshit claims, anecdotes and "scripturally restricted" interpretations AiG and friends are known for.
    "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself -- and you are the easiest person to fool." -- Richard Feynman

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    Senior Member Christian Soldier's Avatar
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    Default Re: the living dinosaur

    Quote Originally Posted by choSenfroZen View Post
    CS

    start here
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Instinct_for_Dragons

    "The origin of Chinese dragon is not certain, but some scholars believe that it originated from totems of different tribes in China. Some have suggested that it comes from a stylized depiction of existing animals, such as snakes, fish, or crocodiles. For example, the Banpo site of the Yangshao culture in Shaanxi featured an elongated, snake-like fish motif. The theory of snakes or fish as the origin of the Chinese dragon is not widely accepted.

    An alternative view, advocated by He Xin, is that the early dragon depicted a species of crocodile. Specifically, Crocodylus porosus, which is the largest living reptile. The crocodile is known to be able to accurately sense changes in air pressure, and be able to sense coming rain. This may have been the origin of the dragon's mythical attributes in controlling the weather, especially the rain. The association with the crocodile is also supported by the view in ancient times that large crocodiles are a variety of dragon. For example, in the Story of Zhou Chu, about the life of a Jin Dynasty warrior, he is said to have killed a "dragon" that infested the waters of his home village, which appears to have been a crocodile."

    The dragons from around the world are nothing more than stylized depictions of predators
    that exist. The romans brought large reptiles for viewing and fighting, they called them dragons.
    Dragons seem to have come from exaggerated myths about huge snakes, lizards or other reptiles.

    I have been to Loch Ness, it is a pretty small lake to hide something like a dinosaur, and they have looked
    a lot. Canada has a monster in Okanagan Lake, probably schools of lake sturgeons. Lake Champlain in New York state has a monster as well. I swam there as well, even did my water landing for my skydiving in there, sorry no monster, and they have been looking.
    Thanks for the interesting read. I don't see how it disproves what I am saying here though, in fact I think it only proves that the Chinese people made good observations. They may have goofed their conclusions, but the observations were good, and that is what I am using, the observations. So if you want to disprove me, you are first going to have to disprove the observation.

    Now then, you have shot yourself in the foot here by telling me that about the Romans bringing in large reptiles for fighting because the only reptiles besides the alligators and crocodiles that are large enough to fight are dinosaurs. Some may argue snakes, but it sure would be hard to get a snake to fight another snake and many other animals would easily destroy them so it would be boring to the people who have some to watch it, and that would possibly cause a riot, not something the leaders want every day or so now is it?

    I am glad that you got to go to Loch Ness, beautiful country I hear. However, I think you are presenting the fact that you didn't see Nessie as evidence for her not existing. Well now, lets apply that to another situation. If I have never seen a water Mellon in my life and I use that as evidence for them not existing, then I am going to get laughed at(kind of a duh there isn't it?). Does the fact that I have never seen one prove or disprove anything? Not one bit. Now lets use something more realistic. A white lion. I have never seen one, except a photograph, yet I believe they exist. Why? They have been described in great detail, they have been photographed, etc. I guess I have some faith involved in it(think on how many things you may have faith on/in now), but the facts support the faith. Now here are some questions that you should answer about those monsters in the lakes.

    Why would Nessie come to you? If she wanted food off the top of the water then there are plenty of boats to attack and eat the people. Since there aren't many boat attacks(if any) we can assume that Nessie is a bottom predator. Now when they did that radar scan they found that the lake is like a mountain range itself, and that there are tunnels that run up into the mountains around the lake. Who knows if Nessie was even in that lake when they did the scan, or if maybe she was under a ridge where the radar wouldn't have penetrated. Also, with the engines she could have heard them coming from the other end of the lake and went into a tunnel that lead up into a mountain before they would have gotten anywhere near enough for the radar to hit her. Just too much chance involved for a guarantee.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaeso View Post
    Out of curiousity, what's your source on Alexander encountering 'dragons?' Some of the legends about him, such as those found in the 'Alexander Romance,' ought not to be taken as truthful accounts of historical events (and I'm sure you'll agree with me on that, unless you've taken to worshipping the god Zeus-Ammon and whatnot). One of the least fantastical sources on him is the 'Life of Alexander' by Plutarch, in which the author warns his readers that what they read is not necessarily true factually, but still true to the character of Alexander. Watch your step...

    By the way, since you're trying to say that dinosaurs are still with us, it may be helpful to define the term 'dinosaur.'
    Thank you. I didn't source that. Here are two sources, I just don't remember which one I saw it in first, or it may have been the video that I saw it in first, I am not sure but here are the two sources. http://www.genesispark.com/genpark/history/history.htm
    http://www.icr.org/article/did-dinosaurs-survive-flood/

    To define dinosaur would be tough. If I wanted to say which ones may still be alive then I could not be sure, as I have not found all of the reports for sure. However when I say dinosaur I mean the large(like the tyrannosaurus) to the small(compies) reptiles that are now rare and some extinct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis View Post
    Your sources, "Answers in Genesis" and "Genesis Park", are not exactly bulwarks of scientific research, or scientific method, or scientific understanding, or scientific anything. Frankly, I can't believe I'm replying to twaddle like this.
    Okay, well insulting the source doesn't change the facts that are within them. So show the facts wrong, thats what matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blondin View Post
    That who lived together? Mr & Mrs Dinosaur? Or are you claiming to present evidence that humans and dinosaurs lived together? You're going to have to be a lot more specific in your claims. Are you claiming that humans existed before the dinosaurs went extinct approximately 65,000,000 years ago? Are you claiming that dinosaurs are not extinct? Could you be more specific about what you are referring to as dinosaurs? Are you claiming that a few individual animals have somehow managed to survive in remote locations for millions of years or that viable colonies or populations of dinosaurs somehow survive without leaving any tangible signs of their existence (verified sightings, remains, droppings, etc)?
    You are correct Blondin, I wasn't clear. I mean to present evidence that humans and dinosaurs lived together since they were created 6000 years ago. I am also claiming that all dinosaurs are not extinct. Could you please define what you mean by verified? Ill explain all of these when you do. I prefer to tackle them all at once.
    It is hard to bear the torch of truth through a crowd without singeing someones beard.

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    Default Re: the living dinosaur

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Soldier View Post

    I am glad that you got to go to Loch Ness, beautiful country I hear. However, I think you are presenting the fact that you didn't see Nessie as evidence for her not existing. Well now, lets apply that to another situation. If I have never seen a water Mellon in my life and I use that as evidence for them not existing, then I am going to get laughed at(kind of a duh there isn't it?). Does the fact that I have never seen one prove or disprove anything? Not one bit. Now lets use something more realistic. A white lion. I have never seen one, except a photograph, yet I believe they exist. Why? They have been described in great detail, they have been photographed, etc. I guess I have some faith involved in it(think on how many things you may have faith on/in now), but the facts support the faith.

    Now when they did that radar scan they found that the lake is like a mountain range itself, and that there are tunnels that run up into the mountains around the lake. Who knows if Nessie was even in that lake when they did the scan, or if maybe she was under a ridge where the radar wouldn't have penetrated. Also, with the engines she could have heard them coming from the other end of the lake and went into a tunnel that lead up into a mountain before they would have gotten anywhere near enough for the radar to hit her. Just too much chance involved for a guarantee.
    CS, my not finding Nessie was not the point.
    The simple fact that she only came into any prominence or sightings in the 20th century, probably
    a gag or publicity stunt. There is no history or cave drawings or mouth to mouth tales, tall or otherwise
    older than my grandpa. Then on top of that all that research, all those man hours, millions of man hours ,
    staring, searching, looking, questing. And the result is the same, an animal that size just could not hide
    in a lake of that size, for all this time.

    Your last statement is my point though, no proof one way or the other is no guarantee. I have seen
    the same pictures of white lions, the picture is relativley clear, and easy to distinguish its a lion,
    I saw it well before photoshop, and there is proof of other animals being white. There are many,
    stories , tales and eyewitness accounts of such beasts.
    So, in my thinking there is an accumulation of small proofs, some I have seen myself, and they lead me
    to believe there are white lions.

    COmpare that to Nessie, the proof is very pale and small and leads me to the exact opposite conclusion
    because of the quality of the photos and lack of any evidence despite all the research.
    " Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? "
    - Epicurus

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    Default Re: the living dinosaur

    Thanks for the interesting read. I don't see how it disproves what I am saying here though, in fact I think it only proves that the Chinese people made good observations. They may have goofed their conclusions, but the observations were good, and that is what I am using, the observations. So if you want to disprove me, you are first going to have to disprove the observation.
    ...
    Okay, well insulting the source doesn't change the facts that are within them. So show the facts wrong, thats what matters.
    CS, apparently you haven't learned a thing about how science works. You have not provided anything to "disprove". All you have provided or linked to is a pile of juvenile unsupported claims. Kent Hovind and Ken Ham are not "sources". They are pathetic, disingenuous opportunists who present fairy tales as "facts" and use circular reasoning to convince the simple-minded that their preconceived conclusions are supported by some kind of "research".

    This is not "insulting the source". I have read quite a bit that was written by those two and their cronies and it is laughable. They claim that the scientific consensus differs from their conclusions only because of "interpretation". What they don't mention is that their methods do not include testing any aspect of their hypotheses. The papers written and submitted by "real" geologists, archeologists and paleontologists are peer reviewed and challenged. Real scientists build on existing knowledge by constantly attempting to extend or disprove the status quo. Our understanding of the age of the Earth and the processes that formed her is based on evidence that has stood the testing, poking and prodding of generations of thinkers and explorers.

    Ken & Kent's so-called evidence is nothing but a bunch of "just so" stories concocted to fit the stories and claims they wish to convince people like you are true. You'll have to do much better than that if you really want to convince anybody that the Earth is only 6000 years old or that dinosaurs still wander parts of the planet.

    To give you some idea of what constitutes evidence it just so happens that PZ Myers published quite a nice little summary of the early history of the science of geography on his blog recently. Here is an excerpt from that entry:

    Let's begin with Robert Hooke (1635-1703). He dabbled brilliantly in many things, but one subject of particular interest was the origin of these curious fossils that people kept digging up, which were thought to be either creatures turned to stone by some miraculous process, or were the expression of an intrinsic nature of stone to mimic life. Hooke examined the details of fossils microscopically, and determined that they had once been alive, and also worked out how the transformation had occurred — by the perfusion of minerals into buried or immersed dead organisms. He also examined the distribution of fossils; finding fossilized clams on mountaintops, for instance, says something about the prior state of that environment.

    Most of those Inland Places. . . are, or have been heretofore under the Water. . . the Waters have been forc'd away from the Parts formerly cover'd, and many of those surfaces are now raised above the level of the Water's Surface many scores of Fathoms. It seems not improbable, that the tops of the highest and most considerable Mountains in the World have been under Water, and that they themselves most probably seem to have been the Effects of some very great Earthquake.

    These conclusions were evidence-driven. Almost no one in the late 17th century would have been interested in opposing religion, so you can't pin that heresy on Hooke. He is simply describing the natural world and finding certain conclusions inescapable, including some to which creationists today still can't adjust — and note that he is writing this more than 300 years ago.

    There have been many other Species of Creatures in former Ages, of which we can find none at present; and that 'tis not unlikely also but that there may be divers new kinds now, which have not been from the beginning.

    And then there's Baron Cuvier (1769-1832) and Alexandre Brongniart (1770-1847) who studied the rocks of the Paris Basin. There were many quarries situated around Paris that cut deep into the hills to provide building stone, and they gave these two the opportunity to look into the structure of the rocks. They identified five major layers, and by examining the fossils, worked out what kinds of animals and plants lived there when the layers were deposited. They found that layers with saltwater species were interleaved with layers containing freshwater species — Paris had been under the sea at least twice!

    Cuvier was not an atheist. In fact, he was even adamant that the earth was relatively young, but in a way that contradicts what Answers in Genesis would tell you. He had worked out that there were different assemblages of animals in each layer, and proposed an explanation: a series of ages, each very different, with the most recent major catastrophe occurring five or six thousand years ago (to bring it in line with the literal interpretation of the Bible) and sweeping away prior forms to allow for the flourishing of human beings.

    It is certain that we are now at least in the fourth succession of terrestrial animals. The age of reptiles was followed by that of the palaeotheres [primitive mammals], then the age of mammoths, mastodons, and megatheria. Finally we arrive at the age of the human species together with domestic animals. It is only in the deposits subsequent to the beginning of this age, in turf-bogs and alluvial deposits, that we find bones all of which belong to animals now existing...None of these remains belong either to the vast deposits of the great catastrophe or to those of the ages preceding that wonderful event.

    If you want someone who was willing to assert that the earth was very, very old, we have to look to the Scottish geologist James Hutton (1726-1797), who was accused of atheism for his ideas, but they were backed up entirely by hard-earned evidence. He postulated that the geology we see was created by multiple cycles of sedimentary deposition, volcanic uplift, and erosion, and he mapped and documented complex unconformities and intrusions that demonstrated that the history of the earth was complex and required great time for the formation and distortion of rock. He also found that the evidence of the time was insufficient to even show the history of the beginning of the earth, which is why he closed his book, Theory of the Earth, with the famous line, "The result, therefore, of our present enquiry is, that we find no vestige of a beginning,—no prospect of an end."

    Again, his conclusion was dictated by the evidence, not some atheistic philosophy.

    At the same time Cuvier and Brongniart were exploring the Paris Basin, William Smith (1769-1839) was walking all over England, building up his geological map. We know what his motivation was: it was economic. He worked in mines, and was eager to capitalize on the opportunities opened up by the Industrial Revolution. Railroad and canal cuts exposed the strata of English geology all over the place, and being able to assess good locations for coal mines was a profitable skill — much like petroleum geology now. Smith observed consistent features of geology, like the way rocks were layered, and what fossils were present in specific layers, and could see that a layer was a slice of time, and that each slice contained different animals (which led to his Principle of Faunal Succession). He worked out the first geological map of Britain on the basis of his surveying.



    There is a pattern to geology: we can see that the strata are not purely local phenomena, but part of formations that often extend continent-wide. These strata also have a predictable order that reflects the timing of their formation. These observations are not reconcilable with the simplistic dogma of the creationists.

    Charles Lyell was also an important geologist, who was also very influential on Charles Darwin. He was not an atheist, but rather, a devout Christian, which caused him considerable discomfort since he was never able to accept the full implications of Darwin's work. Lyell's key dictum was that the present is the key to the past, that what you needed to do was work out mechanisms in action right now and use those to explain what must have happened in the past.

    Darwin himself applied this principle to estimate a minimum age for the earth. He knew from published observations that a rapid rate of sedimentary deposition was 600 feet in 100,000 years; he also knew that the known strata in England had a depth of over 72,000 feet, which implied that the earth had to be at least 12 million years old.

    It's so widely accepted that even creationists use it — it's the basis for their arguments that the ocean sediments and moon dust say the earth is young. Unfortunately, the way they accomplish that is by either using the wrong numbers for accumulation or ignoring the multiple processes that affect the rate.
    <Continued>
    "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself -- and you are the easiest person to fool." -- Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: the living dinosaur

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Soldier View Post
    Okay, well insulting the source doesn't change the facts that are within them. So show the facts wrong, thats what matters.
    Heh... "facts". Good one. Look, even presented with the hardest scientific evidence in existence, people like you are not moved to abandon dogmatic fantasy in favour of reasoned science-grounded reality, so why should anyone bother to rehash the same facts, the same reasoning, the same hard evidence over and over and over again only to be mocked, and only to be presented with the height of addle-brained nonsense such as you are suggesting here?

    No, I'm sorry, it's in fact YOU (and I mean the generic creationist "you") who has to show the ACTUAL facts presented by science wrong. It is not incumbent on people who accept real-world empirical scientific data to prove how your made-up facts conjured into existence for the sole purpose of aligning with a four thousand year old fairy tale are, in fact, not science, are, in fact, the furthest thing from "fact". That's a waste of every thinking person's time.

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    Default Re: the living dinosaur

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Soldier View Post
    So lets start with just this, artwork. I know this has been presented before and such, but lets just get a better look at some of it. Much of it has patterns on it. Now many animals today have patterns on their skin. Now if they drew patterns that where on the skin, then how could they have done this unless they were alive?
    Just because a pattern appears on a drawing of the skin of an animal does not mean the animal is real. Case in point, any mythical creature which cultures past believed to be real but are not (Centaur, Sea Monsters, Medusa, so on and so forth).

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Soldier View Post
    Also, why would they put images of themselves on dinosaurs, with dinosaurs, or killing dinosaurs?
    As a form of entertainment? People have been making fictitious drawings, paintings, etc for a long time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Soldier View Post
    Now then, here is our argument that they may still be alive, that the most recent people to make dinosaur statues where alive in the 1900s.
    This means nothing at all. Dinosaur bones have been excavated since before the 1900's and people have imagined what they would look like ever since.

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Soldier View Post
    Now if they were still alive when Alexander the great was(as he mentioned his soldiers were scared by dragons AKA, dinosaurs), then why couldn’t they have made it another hundred years?
    They weren't alive at the time of Alexander the Great. The dragons described were likely large lizards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Soldier View Post
    Also, don’t forget about an old favorite, the loch ness monster. It would be nothing more than a plesiosaur like dinosaur.
    The Loch Ness Monster has been dis-proven by the numerous manned and unmanned submarines sent into the Loch looking for it, as well as the common logic that a body of water of that size simply could not sustain something like a dinosaur, certainly not enough to allow it to reproduce for 65 million years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Soldier View Post
    Now then, you have shot yourself in the foot here by telling me that about the Romans bringing in large reptiles for fighting because the only reptiles besides the alligators and crocodiles that are large enough to fight are dinosaurs. Some may argue snakes, but it sure would be hard to get a snake to fight another snake and many other animals would easily destroy them so it would be boring to the people who have some to watch it, and that would possibly cause a riot, not something the leaders want every day or so now is it?
    Crocodiles, Alligators, Caimans, Komodo Dragons, Monitor Lizards, Anacondas, etc. The list of reptiles capable of entertaining a crowd of Romans is very extensive.

    If you truly believe that you can prove the existence of modern Dinosaurs, I suggest you submit it as a peer reviewed study. You would revolutionize modern science if you could, and easily take home a Nobel Prize.
    Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel.
    Religion, n. A daughter of hope and fear, explaining to ignorance the nature of the unknowable.
    Philosophy, n. A route of many roads leading from nowhere to nothing.
    -Ambrose Bierce

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