simple proofs that god doesnt exist

I have to disagree with the myth that religion is the cause of wars. Politics, governmental divisions are the means of war, but in the past they have used the religious backing in order to unite the people, usually by misleading the ignorant masses, to war.

Originally Posted by Raymond Sheen

In fact the immortal soul and hell are pagan teachings later adopted by apostate Christianity.

That statement isn't entirely accurate. The Hebrew sects Pharisees and Saduccees disagreed on immortality, with the latter claiming "no immortal soul". The Pharisees were in the ascendancy during the time just prior to (and during) Jesus' preaching, and did espouse immortality.

Originally Posted by yoda55

That statement isn't entirely accurate. The Hebrew sects Pharisees and Saduccees disagreed on immortality, with the latter claiming "no immortal soul". The Pharisees were in the ascendancy during the time just prior to (and during) Jesus' preaching, and did espouse immortality.

The concept of the immortal soul began to influence the Jewish thinking about the time of Alexander the Great, but wasn't, of course, adopted by Christianity until the later part of the 4th century C.E.

Originally Posted by Raymond Sheen

I have to disagree with the myth that religion is the cause of wars. Politics, governmental divisions are the means of war, but in the past they have used the religious backing in order to unite the people, usually by misleading the ignorant masses, to war.

Religion may not be the cause of all wars, but it has played a major role affecting initiation and perpetuation of some wars in the last millenium [e.g. Spain = Moors in Septimania (719–720), Mid-East = Crusades (1095-1291), Holy Roman Empire = Peasants' War (1525), France = Wars of Religion (1562–98), England = Scot civil war (1638) to name a few].

Strictly fundamentalist religious groups are most likely to escalate to armed conflict, as there is no negotiable resolution to differences. Because, in order to compromise, the adherents must compromise their religions.

Originally Posted by yoda55

Religion may not be the cause of all wars, but it has played a major role affecting initiation and perpetuation of some wars in the last millenium [e.g. Spain = Moors in Septimania (719–720), Mid-East = Crusades (1095-1291), Holy Roman Empire = Peasants' War (1525), France = Wars of Religion (1562–98), England = Scot civil war (1638) to name a few].

I have to admit I am not that familiar with the history of those periods. Would you mind elaborating briefly on each of these. It seems to me that it is at least possible that many wars during the period given, (719 - 1638) religion had a much more powerful political influence. So what may seem religious wars were more political in nature, at least in as much as the reason for fighting was more geographical or political in nature than religious. If that isn't the case perhaps your elaboration would correct my thinking. Not that I defend religion or deny its potential for abuse in the form of war, it just seems that there could be other factors to consider?

Originally Posted by yoda55

Strictly fundamentalist religious groups are most likely to escalate to armed conflict, as there is no negotiable resolution to differences. Because, in order to compromise, the adherents must compromise their religions.

What sort of differences and what sort of compromises?

Originally Posted by Raymond Sheen

I have to admit I am not that familiar with the history of those periods. Would you mind elaborating briefly on each of these. It seems to me that it is at least possible that many wars during the period given, (719 - 1638) religion had a much more powerful political influence. So what may seem religious wars were more political in nature, at least in as much as the reason for fighting was more geographical or political in nature than religious. If that isn't the case perhaps your elaboration would correct my thinking. Not that I defend religion or deny its potential for abuse in the form of war, it just seems that there could be other factors to consider?

Check out some of the links for details...

SPAIN = (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_invasion_of_Gaul); Moors, representing Islam, were spreading their brand of influence by force - requiring conversions as they went. One side requiring another to abandon its current religion in favor of Islam leaves no room for compromise. Islam is dedicated to eventual domination on the world (by force if necessary), where all inhabitants will have converted or been executed.

Mid-East = (gbgm-umc.org/umw/bible/crusades.stm); Turks refused to let pilgrims from other faiths enter Jerusalem. What's in Jerusalem? The dome of the Rock - where Mohammed ascended the ladder to paradise. It's the third or fourth most holy Islamic site, not to be defiled by infidels.

Holy Roman Empire =(en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peasants%27_War); A petition began as a religious sounding document. Indeed, the first "article" called for church congregations to have the right to appoint and/or remove their own ministers. This is variation in the Catholic denominations requesting more autonomy from Rome.

France = (www.flowofhistory.com/units/west/13/FC87); Protestants vs. Catholics: Catholicism considered all protestant denominations as heretical, to be eliminated (either driving adherents out of Europe or requiring conversion).

England = (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland_in_the_Wars_of_the_Three_Kingdoms); Catholicism vs. break-away churches, as well as secular issues, having begun with royal decrees on religious forms.

Originally Posted by Raymond Sheen

What sort of differences and what sort of compromises?

When the basic tenets are at issue, an adherent will have to reconstruct his bases in philosophy (the foundations upon which he builds their theology). This dramatically changes the meanings of religious texts, possibly (in his mind) causing contradiction(s) which cannot be resolved.

Example: Catholicism holds a special condition, and relationship, of Mary (mother of Jesus) with the remainder of the human race. The belief is that she becomes an intercessor for people in their supplications to God (through Jesus, the Savior), who cannot be approached directly in prayer. This arrangement shadows a Hebrew tenet that, since Man's fall from Grace (Eden), that to approach God directly is fatal to the supplicant... The Catholic Eucharest interprets the "Last Supper" as sacrificing Jesus anew each time it's performed in the Mass, that the bread and wine are transformed into the actual body and blood of Christ for each communicant.

Protestant (Lutheranism) views Mary as a special woman, as God chose her to be the mother of Jesus. But, they do not ascribe more to her apparent righteousness than her being a devout Hebrew "in the right place at the right time"... They hold Jesus to be the same incarnation of God as the Catholics. However, there is disagreement on the number of sacrements instituted. They hold that Holy Communion is a method to experience closeness to this remote past through sharing of Jesus' impending sacrifice on the cross, as was instituted by Jesus, Himself... The Catholic tendency to highly revere saints (Canonization) to such a degree that they appear to take on the status of demi-gods (to be prayed to for intercessory assistance) is viewed by Protestant Lutherans as a vestage of paganism from ancient Rome (or, at the very least, ignoring one of the first four commandments from the Hebrew foundations of Christianity).

In the past, some Catholic popes imposed drastic efforts to weed out heretical beliefs, which could contaminate the true faith. A Protestant Lutheran would resist accepting what appears to be blatant disregard of scriptural truths. Fundamentalists, interpreting the Bible literally, will not accept interpretive views of scripture - even though there are examples of interpretative anecdotes (parables) in scripture (and definitions which show common mankind perspectives to be different from God's). This apparent contradiction (in view of historical events) is a rift which plagues inter-denominational cooperation.

So the current wars are not religious wars?

Getting fundy muslims out of Afganistan isn't a religious war? Fighting the muslim fundies in Iraq isn't a religious war? Somalia, Nigeria, Yemen, and of course the long standing religious war simmering between India and Pakistan.