Question of Christian understanding on dinosaurs and fossil record

Hello.
First, I am new to this forum, though over the past three days, I've read the thread "Religious questions for atheists", and I quite liked the discussion. I also learned a lot about Christianity. Thanks.
To introduce myself, I come from Czech Republic. Here, over 60% of the population has no religion, therefore I am not quite familiar with Christianity.
I hope I can bump this topic...
I'd like to ask an question (to CS or CRD): what are your (or the Christians') think of the dinosaurs? Do you/they believe they lived, or not? What about the fossils?

I find it hard to believe that most of the America has no idea how evolution works... Here, I can just turn on the TV to the 'second channel' and I can already watch something about history of the planet Earth, the solar system, the universe (big bang), or about evolution and how animals evolved, etc. Also experiments with animals, e.g. teaching monkeys sign language. I always find that fascinating. Do you really don't have programs like that in your TV?
I mean, sure, we also got crappy reality shows and sport nobody cares about. But there's a lot of program like that.

Thanks for any answers!

Originally Posted by Sanky

Hello.
First, I am new to this forum, though over the past three days, I've read this entire thread, and I quite liked the discussion. I also learned a lot about Christianity. Thanks.
To introduce myself, I come from Czech Republic. Here, over 60% of the population has no religion, therefore I am not quite familiar with Christianity.
I hope I can bump this topic...
I'd like to ask an question (to CS or CRD): what are your (or the Christians') think of the dinosaurs? Do you/they believe they lived, or not? What about the fossils?

I find it hard to believe that most of the America has no idea how evolution works... Here, I can just turn on the TV to the 'second channel' and I can already watch something about history of the planet Earth, the solar system, the universe (big bang), or about evolution and how animals evolved, etc. Also experiments with animals, e.g. teaching monkeys sign language. I always find that fascinating. Do you really don't have programs like that in your TV?
I mean, sure, we also got crappy reality shows and sport nobody cares about. But there's a lot of program like that.

Thanks for any answers!

I'm not sure if CS will reply too soon (I think he's busy in school) so I'll try and give you a general idea of the western christian perspective on dinosaurs. Most Christians believe dinosaurs did exist. However, many Creationists believe that they lived alongside humans. They cite quotes from the bible as proof of this. For example, the bible uses such words as 'leviathan', 'behemoth', or 'great kingly beast' and Christians will argue that because the word dinosaur is such a recent term, previously people were forced to describe these 'beasts' in other ways. Of course none of their 'evidence' is verifiable at all. Scientists keep asking for them to publish their findings in peer reviewed journals to see if it can stand the test of scrutiny - long story short, there are usually never any findings published, and if they are, they are quickly proven to be erroneous.

I don't watch too much TV but I don't think evolution is as prominent on American television (Canada too unfortunately). Channels such as the discovery channel (supposed to be science based) usually contain shows that are more interested in blowing things up, natural disasters, man vs nature, or what the world would be like if the human race disappeared.

Anyway, welcome to the forum. I'm going to split your post into a new thread because it deserves a clean start.

Thanks for explaining that to me and for splitting the topic.

If they believe that dinosaurs and humans co-existed, how do they think the dinosaurs went extinct? Also, how does this come together with the big flood (Noem's arch)? Did he take pairs of dinosaurs, too?

As a matter of fact, many Christians (and other theists) here fully believe in evolution, dinosaurs being before humans and the big bang, and say that the god created the world before it (and that -he?- still exists). I think that's a reasonable explanation, but it makes no sense when together with bible. Is that also common in America?

Originally Posted by Sanky

Thanks for explaining that to me and for splitting the topic.

If they believe that dinosaurs and humans co-existed, how do they think the dinosaurs went extinct? Also, how does this come together with the big flood (Noem's arch)? Did he take pairs of dinosaurs, too?

As a matter of fact, many Christians (and other theists) here fully believe in evolution, dinosaurs being before humans and the big bang, and say that the god created the world before it (and that -he?- still exists). I think that's a reasonable explanation, but it makes no sense when together with bible. Is that also common in America?

One argument is that humans hunted them down and killed them, another is that they couldn't sustain themselves due to lack of sustenance and subsequently went extinct. The craziest argument is that the Earth used to be surrounded by a thick layer of evaporated water that created a warmer climate (green house effect). Eventually the evaporated water condensed all at once and the earth flooded. They argue that this was 'the great flood' in the bible when the story of Noah is told. After the flood, it's argued that the climate had changed to make Earth uninhabitable for most dinosaurs, and the ones that could survive in the changed climate were either hunted or beat out of food by other species that were more apt for wtv environments they were in.

Creationists often reference the Ica stones as proof of human and dinosaur co-habitation, and the sea shells found on top of Mount Everest as evidence of the flood. Many creationists also argue that the geologic column is sorted by mass due to the flood, similar to how layers of sedimentary will separate themselves when you fill a bucket full of water and sand and shake it around for a little while. These stones were a hoax though, nevertheless they are still used referenced by many Christians.

I agree, it is much more reasonable for Christians to just give up this 10000 year baloney and just argue that god was the first mover. There are some Christian evolutionists in America. Dr. Kennith Miller is a Roman Catholic and a very well known evolutionary biologist in America, and the Catholic church's stance overall on evolution seems to be fuzzy but leaning towards evolution. Father George Coyne, head of the Roman Catholic observatory in Arizona is a strong supporter of evolution.

Welcome to the forum.

First, you can't say Christianity or Christians believe one way or another on this subject. You can say that many or most Christians hold certain views maybe. I am a Christian. I don't see a contradiction between evolution and creationism. The fight lies elsewhere. The argument is that evolution contradicts the creation story in the Bible. I disagree. So here we're talking about opinions of people and you know how people are. I rely very confidently in the Bible, but that doesn't mean I can ignore evidence right under my nose, like the fossil record. I can disagree with what the fossil record is telling us, but I can't just deny it is there. Concerning Christianity, Christians first believe there is only one God, creator of everything. We believe that God is a person, in fact three persons, but we don't understand that ourselves. We just see those three persons as the same God and have to leave it at that. The first person we see is God as Father. The second is God, his Son, Jesus Who is God, but somehow a different person of God. Hey, I don't know how that works either, but there it is. The third person is the Holy Spirit of God, who is thought to have been the moving agent in creation. Some of this thinking comes from philosophy, another subject where I know less than I should. We believe that man fell from grace with God and is a fallen being, doomed to eternal death, but God sent his Son, Jesus, who became a living human and dwelt among us on earth. We believe He voluntarily died in our place by being hung on a cross. We believe that He will return and judge all mankind, living and dead. That's pretty much it. A great deal of evolution is theory. Heck a great deal of everything is theory. I don't like it when people assume I believe other things because I'm Christian. Somebody out there is going to correct something I said in error. Surely I have. I won't be offended at that.

Originally Posted by Ken Coumerilh

My original belief in God didn't start with the Bible. It first started in my trying to answer the question "Why is there anything." Some atheists have told me that the big bang explains that. They didn't understand the question. I'm not asking how things started, but why was there even a big bang. My next step was natural law, the Tao. Atheists respect natural law too.

Why does there need to be a reason? There doesn't. You don't like the reality that the universe has no purpose, has no ultimate goal. It just is and serves no greater purpose beyond that which those who inhabit it give it. Why does the universe exist and how did the universe begin are the same question because there is nothing more to it than the process by which it came into existence.