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Don't tell me what to wear!

This is a discussion on Don't tell me what to wear! within the Politics forums, part of the General category; Don't tell me what to wear! This is how I feel about any government trying to ban certain types of ...

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    Default Don't tell me what to wear!

    Don't tell me what to wear! This is how I feel about any government trying to ban certain types of clothing in public spaces, whether it has religious links or not.

    In regard to the Belgian law to ban the wearing of burqas in public Yahoo News, among others, reported:

    "A leading rights watchdog late Wednesday warned against the move saying it would be counterproductive.

    "Bans like this lead to a lose-lose situation," said Judith Sunderland, senior Western Europe researcher at Human Rights Watch. "They violate the rights of those who choose to wear the veil and do nothing to help those who are compelled to do so."

    It said there was no evidence that wearing the full veil in public threatened public safety, public order, health, morals, or the fundamental rights and freedoms of others."
    Article 18 of The Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

    Article 18.
    * Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
    In Canada we often need to cover our faces in public during the coldest months of the year in order to protect ourselves from frost bite. Wearing a burqa covers about the same portion of the face. This idea that someone's identity should be forcibly revealed in public denies someone's right to privacy as well. Wearing sun glasses and wigs can be just as useful for concealing one's identity, but the law doesn't prohibit these.

    It's a law designed to interfere with religious liberty and must be objected to by anyone who values their freedoms. If we want to object to the Taliban making laws in Afghanistan that restrict women's rights, it is important to protect women's freedoms everywhere.

    European countries have seen increased immigration by Muslims and they appear to be fearful about the consequences of growing populations seeking to change the fabric of their society. It's true that Muslims may eventually have enough power to change the political landscape, but not observing human rights and making laws that restrict liberty will not protect a free society. It does exactly what many religions seek to do, deny us liberty.

    Isabelle Praile, the vice-president of the Muslim Executive of Belgium, warned that a Belgian ban could be the thin end of the wedge.

    "Today it's the full-face veil. Tomorrow the veil, the day after it will be Sikh turbans, and then perhaps it will be miniskirts," she told AFP. (from guardian.co.uk)
    If you force people to behave in a certain fashion (no pun intended) you will increase their sense of persecution and provide them with martyrs to inflate the impression that they are right. Let them wear what they want and treat them with respect, not fear or disgust.

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    Default Re: Don't tell me what to wear!

    Okay, I'm convinced Rationella.
    I still do not like the idea of some these women being forced into this, but if they are so sad as wanting to cover up, so be it, they will join the 21st century sometime voluntarily I suppose.
    I am not convinced that these pieces of clothing are religious in nature, or are they just offshoot bizarre interpretations of their faith, like the christians have dumbass snake handlers.
    Legislation of clothing, you are right, is just a bad idea. A burqua in a bank is something I probably will never see, I've never seen one except in print or TV. But if a lady really wants to get
    shot by some twitchy bank guard, this I still think would be as effective way to get shot as wearing a balaclava in a bank, January blizzard or not. You can't govern stupidity or bad taste.
    " Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? "
    - Epicurus

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    Default Re: Don't tell me what to wear!

    This idea that someone's identity should be forcibly revealed in public denies someone's right to privacy as well
    You don't have a right to an infinite amount of privacy in public.

    So the question becomes more, "where do we draw the line?".

    If you really think you should be allowed to wear whatever bullshit fashion statement or concocted protective gear you want, I dare you to wear a flack jacket with flares strapped around it like a pack of hotdogs and call that fashionable.

    I'll laugh if you get shot because you'll deserve every single bullet for being so stupid.

    There is no human nature that is not change
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    Default Re: Don't tell me what to wear!

    In open public places, perhaps it should be permitted, but when going to a government office or where there is a requirement for photo identification, I don't think anybody should be permitted to cover their face.

    Also, chosenfrozen, it's very dangerous to think and hope that they will just 'join' the 21st century. J.S. Mill wrote about this, he says that we can't always count on the good prevailing because quite often it does not. We can't count on the Muslim world to just 'wake up' and rid themselves of their fairy tale beliefs. The threat of Muslim domination is real, Muslim nations are constantly advocating for Sharia law in the UN and special sanctions for their countries. Although we have a human rights framework, with a muslim political majority, it can be changed. Although banning head dresses isn't the right approach, something needs to be done.

    I think the media and television need to get rid of this idea that anything against islam is islamiphobic. They should start airing tv shows and documentaries about the historicity of islam and the quran from a scholarly perspective, show the evidence of their beliefs (or lack there of). Our education system needs to start producing mandatory courses that give a fair and balanced education of religious history, such as what Daniel Dennett has proposed.
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    Default Re: Don't tell me what to wear!

    You are correct in the desire for sharia law, they have tried in England, and I am sure they will try elsewhere, I initally disagreed with Rationella, I see her point, banning the clothing is a slippery slope, but I do agree that we have to
    do something. The only hope I see is just as you suggested. A education program that would enlighten these poor women , at least over here. And yes they would have realize for themselves that their religion is nothing more that a series of dark ages superstitions, many of which seem designed to accomplish nothing more than making muslim women chattel.

    And as for the winter and the clothing, the more I think about it, No, it does not fit nor is it comparible to burquas.

    I live north of 60, we get cold long dark winters, people do wear face masks and winter covers, but not inside, not when the weather isn't bitter.
    " Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? "
    - Epicurus

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