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What are your morals

This is a discussion on What are your morals within the Ethics and Morals forums, part of the Atheism category; Also, I am seeing amazing consistency on here. Can any of you go deeper? There is an amazing consistency because, ...

  1. #31
    Infrequens Posteri Nocturne's Avatar
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    Default Re: What are your morals

    Also, I am seeing amazing consistency on here. Can any of you go deeper?
    There is an amazing consistency because, for the most part, our morals are a part of human nature. Unhindered, humans develop first a sense of empathy (before the first year), a sense of justice (during childhood), and a sense of reasoning (adolescence and on).

    You'll find that if you ask someone why they feel like they shouldn't hurt anyone else or why being fair is so important, and that person hasn't spent a lot of time contemplating it, then their answer will be along the lines of "Just because." This is because those values are innate.

    This, coupled with the recognition that we require sociability to survive and thrive, heavily influences behaviour. Mine, anyway.

    Off the top of my head, that's why I think that many atheists would discover that they fit the rough definition of a secular humanist. Without an alternative guide (i.e, the Bible), we fall back on genetic predispositions...and our upbringing.

    Of course, not all atheists are like that. Environment is also crucial to a child's development, and pain or abuse may impede neurological growth and prevent these traits from manifestation. Even emphasis of certain emotions, like hatred, can significantly alter the personality of an individual (hence, in my opinion, those cheery Westboro folks).

    I hope this is what you meant by going deeper, I apologise if I misunderstood.
    Last edited by Nocturne; 07-07-2009 at 08:53 PM. Reason: changing sentence structure

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    Default Re: What are your morals

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocturne View Post
    Without an alternative guide (i.e, the Bible), we fall back on genetic predispositions...and our upbringing.
    I agree with much of your post, but I have a quibble with the sentence above. My view is that any guide, such as the bible, is informed by our innate predispositions, and never the other way around. The existence of these guides is the cause for much grief. Their interpretation goes against the grain of what our evolved moral sensibilities would naturally suggest.

    (PS: Welcome aboard.)

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    Default Re: What are your morals

    My view is that any guide, such as the bible, is informed by our innate predispositions, and never the other way around.
    I agree with you, I'd worded it wrong. I was thinking in terms of social or political issues; some people reject certain ideas on the basis of their religion and would have to reexamine their stance should they be left without it.

    Thank you for the welcome, by the way. I've been lurking for a while and I think I'll enjoy it here.

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    Default Re: What are your morals

    My morals come with knowing death is a door and it does not matter what is behind the door. What is important is knowing that there are people in my life who are between me and that door. They are in my way and that is a good thing. They are friends and family. I also know that there are other people who are born selfish, in case today is a famine and the species needs to survive todays famine. Some of these are relatives, so I can't do too much about them. The rest I stay away from. My estimate is 10% of any given population are born to safe the species in todays famine. They are the selfish manipulating jerks I avoid. I am lucky enough to be born with a jerk detector. They selfish jerks can't change, even with a born again experience. So my morals come with increasing the number of people in my life who are between me and the door. That takes thought, understanding and appreciation that most can be motivated by doing what they can do with others. It is vital to help people find a fit for some function, that gives them the opportunity to feel they are helping. A conversation that ends with "It was really nice to meet you", with that wonderful tone of voice is how I know I am achieving my goal to be moral. To be fair, to know that we are very lucky (not blessed) to be the only species that is fair.

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    Default Re: What are your morals

    [QUOTE=Louis;4412]Most people of conscience live by the golden rule, found in Christianity in Luke 6:31. However, this "ethic of reciprocity" as it's called predates Christianity, and is found before it in the philosophies of Confucianism, Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, and with the ancient Greek philosophers.
    [QUOTE]


    Good point. The Christian church has been very adept at pinching things from other traditions - ethics, sacred sites, feast days etc etc.
    Christmas is a pagan festival actually.

    Rick

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    Default Re: What are your morals

    Just as an example: witnessing the beginning of one war was a great way to see religious morality in practice. I lived just in front of the catholic church and often witnessed soldiers returning from the battlefield and going strait into the church. I was 13 then and was able to contemplate the difference. For everything I do, whether that be a white lie, or cheating on the test, I would bang my head for it knowing it’s not right and had no one else to blame for it or ask for forgiveness, where those soldiers who just came back from a killing rampage, went to church and had everything forgiven by an imaginary force. What an irony, that life in a fairyland.
    “The church says the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church” - Ferdinand Magellan -

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    Default Re: What are your morals

    Do unto others as I would like them to do unto me.
    I always found this moral standard amusing since it justifies by and large the actions of psychopaths.

    Of course I'm sure Kant did not intend for his categorical imperative to be used as such

    "Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law."

    However it can easily be thrown in the fire with one analogy.

    "A sadist is a masochist who follows the golden rule"

    While Kant would likely disagree that hurting people is reasonable in universal law even for a masochist, he was a bit of an optimist and any one can be a killer, given the circumstances.

    My moral standards don't exist. I have opinions and they will change undoubtedly in the course of my life.
    I refuse to subscribe myself to my own prison.
    I am vain and self serving. I will continue to be both of these things insofar as they benefit me.

    If they happen to benefit others, because in my vanity and self serving nature, I feel that helping others helps me, then so be it. Wouldn't be the first time I helped someone because it made me feel better about life.

    I won't pretend that I'm not looking out for myself, as well.

    It would be arrogant to suggest it.
    Altruism does not exist and there is no reason to believe it does.

    Just because you say you're doing something for someone else, doesn't mean you are. Everyone on some level operates for their own interests(Even when those interests include their own demise).

    Not everyone holds that their own interests are as valuable as the interests of someone else. That is not altruism.

    If we were to speculate that Altruism existed anywhere, it would be in the fragment of cement that broke free from that skyscraper that, falling fifteen storeys crushes a strangers skull in without a single thought or interest in the outcome.
    Last edited by Demojen; 03-09-2010 at 01:08 AM. Reason: addendum

    There is no human nature that is not change
    Demojen

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