Canadian woman being held against her will in Saudi Arabia

She's a criminal if she was given Canadian Citizenship having left Saudi Arabia without legal documentation.
Canada can not protect criminals and must respect the laws of the countries for which they work with.

If however she was *born* in Canada, Saudi laws do not apply to her. She should be protected under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

The only way she's getting out of there is if she runs.


Not to the Embassy.

She's a criminal if she was given Canadian Citizenship having left Saudi Arabia without legal documentation.
Canada can not protect criminals and must respect the laws of the countries for which they work with.

I don't see where you're getting this, Demojen. The article says she is an Indian-born, Canadian citizen who went to Dubai (in the UAE) to visit her boyfriend. Her father tricked her into going to Saudi Arabia where he knew the laws would allow him to have complete power over her and then changed her visa to a permanent resident one without her permission. She is an adult Canadian citizen. I see this as a huge betrayal by her parents. I should think this is exactly the kind of mess the Canadian embassy should help its citizens out of.

Originally Posted by Blondin

I should think this is exactly the kind of mess the Canadian embassy should help its citizens out of.

So do I.

According to her post, the Canadian embassy is telling her that they can't help her because she used her Indian passport when she entered Saudi Arabia. However, she apparently only did this because her parents had taken all her other ID, including her Canadian passport.

After reading Nazia's lengthy description of her situation and the article written about her ordeal with the Canadian government, I am not at all surprised that it is taking a very long time for any Canadian authorities to sort it all out. It's not a simple and straight forward application.

As a Canadian who has gone through getting landed status for my American husband, a process that took almost 2 years without any unusual elements or peculiar foreign legalities to deal with, I feel empathetic towards this young woman if what she tells us is the truth. However, there are elements of her story that do not seem very believable and I can understand why the Canadian authorities are taking their time to thoroughly investigate.

Nazia may have been duped by her parents, and is now living in a country she does not wish to live in. From what I gather she is gainfully employed and not under immediate threat of violence. Continuing to petition the government for help to return to Canada is her best course of action. I don't feel any particular concern that our government is unduly delaying action or making her wait needlessly.

We live in a world of scam artists and terrorists. I am grateful when my government makes sure that those seeking to come to Canada without proper identification documents are carefully screened and their stories not accepted at face value. Didn't she state that her boyfriend had trained as a pilot? (Remember 9/11 and how useful a pilot's license is to terrorists? Remember that recently women were responsible for the bombing in Russian subways?) When you leave Canada you take a risk of not being able to return. All Canadians should understand that this is always a risk. None of us are immune.

The article says she is an Indian-born, Canadian citizen who went to Dubai

Keep in mind that her citizenship can be revoked. Her having obtained citizenship without being released from her citizenship within Saudi Arabia(You can't leave Saudi Arabia without permission from your elder(father)), her citizenship in Canada is illegitimate. She would be a criminal in Saudi Arabia.

I might not've read the details finely enough, but I'm pretty sure when you enter canada if you're a criminal you can not obtain Canadian Citizenship.

Originally Posted by Rationella

When you leave Canada you take a risk of not being able to return. All Canadians should understand that this is always a risk. None of us are immune.

The right to re-enter the country of one's citizenship is enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Originally Posted by Demojen

Keep in mind that her citizenship can be revoked.

But her Canadian citizenship hasn't been revoked.

Originally Posted by Demojen

Her having obtained citizenship without being released from her citizenship within Saudi Arabia(You can't leave Saudi Arabia without permission from your elder(father)), her citizenship in Canada is illegitimate. She would be a criminal in Saudi Arabia.

I might not've read the details finely enough, but I'm pretty sure when you enter canada if you're a criminal you can not obtain Canadian Citizenship.

You haven't read the details finely enough, and I think you have an incorrect understanding of the law.

- she's not a Saudi citizen. She was born in India and became a citizen of Canada. Canada considers her a dual citizen, but India doesn't recognize dual citizenship, so it's not clear what her status is with them. She entered Saudi Arabia on a temporary visa, which was changed to permanent by her father without her permission after she arrived.

- there's absolutely no reason to think that Saudi Arabia considers her a criminal. If she did visit the country before (which I suppose is possible, since her parents live there), there's no reason to assume that she didn't get her father's authorization for her exit visa. In this case, her father has refused to authorize her exit visa because he doesn't approve of her boyfriend, which wouldn't have been an issue in the past.

- even given all that, you don't automatically lose your Canadian citizenship just because you've broken the law in some other country. If you hid your criminal record and it's serious enough, they can carry out proceedings to revoke your citizenship, but this is a measure that the government has to deliberately take and it's only reserved for extreme cases. IMO, it's doubtful that Immigration Canada would even care if a new citizen had broken a foreign law that was considered horribly unjust by normal Canadian standards.

Canada considers her a dual citizen, but India doesn't recognize dual citizenship, so it's not clear what her status is with them.

For now.

What I was trying to get at was whether or not there are laws within India that prohibit her leaving the country against her parents wishes.

There are reasons for Saudi Arabia to consider her a criminal. They practice Sharia Law.

even given all that, you don't automatically lose your Canadian citizenship just because you've broken the law in some other country.

You don't automatically lose Canadian Citizenship for anything short of exile from the country, but if your citizenship was obtained under false pretenses, it's legitimacy is in question.

I agree that Immigration probably doesn't care about laws broken in foreign nations they consider to be unjust to begin with, but everyone knows that and that's just one more loop hole for Canadian officials to try and get through, having treated foreign laws like they're a joke.

I certainly don't respect Sharia Law. I think it's disgusting.
This woman if she is a Canadian citizen, ever was one or wants to be one should be entitled to asylum, but that has less to do with her as much as it has to do with Canada.

I don't know about other Canadians, but I'd raise arms against the practice of Sharia Law if I saw it here and someone wanted my help.

Posted by Penguin: "The right to re-enter the country of one's citizenship is enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights."

So? How naive a statement. Just because one has the so-called "right" to re-enter doesn't mean it's going to happen. If you lose your ID documents, which can happen to anyone, you will have to prove you are entitled to re-enter. Unless we adopt an electronic tattoo system similar to tagging dogs/cats the Canadian authorities have no way of telling without the proper documentation whether a person claiming to be a Canadian citizen is actually a citizen. Even those documents can be forged. If you leave your country you absolutely do take the very real and tangible risk of not being able to return.

Posted by Penguin: "She entered Saudi Arabia on a temporary visa, which was changed to permanent by her father without her permission after she arrived."

It is the responsibility of travellers to know the laws of the country they wish to visit. Nazia is an intelligent woman with an IT degree. There is no excuse for her not knowing that Saudi Arabia's laws might keep her from leaving that country once she entered. It's not like those laws were hidden or changed after she arrived there. If she believes her father has committed a crime under Saudi Arabia's legal system then she should be appealing to the Saudi Arabian authorities to have him arrested for his actions.

I personally would NEVER visit a country with such antiquated laws about the rights of women. She risked an awful lot when she decided to trust her parents, who had given her every reason to not be trusted. She lost out. Yes, it's sad, but it certainly does not require that the Canadian government bend over backwards to get her out of a situation she could have avoided had she used some of her critical thinking skills.

The Canadian government has stated that they are investigating. The wheels of justice turn very slowly. Three years in not a long time when it comes to such matters. Any Canadians who travel should realize they are not immune and your citizenship has only limited power to protect you.

Posted by Demojen: "I don't know about other Canadians, but I'd raise arms against the practice of Sharia Law if I saw it here and someone wanted my help."

Sharia Law should be opposed here. As a woman who has worked with abused women I am very concerned when I hear of Islamic fundamentalists attempting to get Canadian authorities to accept these laws in deciding legal cases here in Canada. I'm sure the Canadian authorities want to help out this Canadian woman. There are diplomatic avenues they must work through when dealing with another country's laws. It's a shame that people don't understand just how impotent their governments are to protect them when they venture outside their country's borders.

Originally Posted by Demojen

You don't automatically lose Canadian Citizenship for anything short of exile from the country, but if your citizenship was obtained under false pretenses, it's legitimacy is in question.

I agree that Immigration probably doesn't care about laws broken in foreign nations they consider to be unjust to begin with, but everyone knows that and that's just one more loop hole for Canadian officials to try and get through, having treated foreign laws like they're a joke.

No, it's not.

Even if you've gained your citizenship under false pretenses, you're still a citizen until it's officially revoked.

However, this is all a red herring, because there's absolutely no basis for the claim that she got her citizenship under false pretenses.

Originally Posted by Rationella

So? How naive a statement. Just because one has the so-called "right" to re-enter doesn't mean it's going to happen. If you lose your ID documents, which can happen to anyone, you will have to prove you are entitled to re-enter. Unless we adopt an electronic tattoo system similar to tagging dogs/cats the Canadian authorities have no way of telling without the proper documentation whether a person claiming to be a Canadian citizen is actually a citizen. Even those documents can be forged. If you leave your country you absolutely do take the very real and tangible risk of not being able to return.

Are you saying that there's some question of her identity?

I agree that the Canadian government has a responsibility to confirm that a person who says they're a Canadian citizen actually is one before treating them as such, but that's not the case here. In fact, her story makes it sound that at least one point, she presented her Canadian passport to embassy staff. They know who she is, and they know she's Canadian.

Originally Posted by Rationella

It is the responsibility of travellers to know the laws of the country they wish to visit.

It's also the responsibility of national governments to adhere to international law.

Originally Posted by Rationella

Nazia is an intelligent woman with an IT degree. There is no excuse for her not knowing that Saudi Arabia's laws might keep her from leaving that country once she entered.

If she entered freely, I might be inclined to agree with you. However, from the sounds of it, she was forced to enter the country by her parents. I'm not convinced that she made the decision to enter Saudi Arabia freely, and absent that free decision, I'm not prepared to accept the idea that she's voluntarily agreed to be subject to Saudi laws.

Originally Posted by Rationella

It's not like those laws were hidden or changed after she arrived there. If she believes her father has committed a crime under Saudi Arabia's legal system then she should be appealing to the Saudi Arabian authorities to have him arrested for his actions.

I don't personally hold my breath that a woman could ever have her father brought up on charges in Saudi Arabia, even for something that's explicitly illegal under Saudi law.

Originally Posted by Rationella

I personally would NEVER visit a country with such antiquated laws about the rights of women.

Neither would I. I've personally turned down work in other Arabian countries because of concerns about my legal status there... and those were the "good" ones for the area.

However, I disagree with the idea that a person gives up all reasonable rights when they enter a foreign country. She's still a Canadian citizen, and the Canadian government still has a duty to protect her rights to whatever extent they can.

I haven't had alot of time to review this story in greater detail, but it does seem that, after a closer review this woman is being marginalized because she's an indian.
Someone needs to bring the hammer down on this kidnapping. She became a Canadian with the consent of her parents and therefore her parents have released their authority on her.

Posted by Penguin: However, I disagree with the idea that a person gives up all reasonable rights when they enter a foreign country. She's still a Canadian citizen, and the Canadian government still has a duty to protect her rights to whatever extent they can.

I agree that a Canadian has every right to expect the Canadian Government to protect her/his rights, however, it does take time for the process to work and it has only been 3 years (short in bureaucracy time). There is no indication in any of the articles I read that the Canadian government is ignoring this woman's case. They are likely proceeding as is necessary given the lack of documents and needing to keep diplomatic relationships on a good footing with Saudi Arabia. We don't want an international incident that could lead to war after all.
Unless you work for an embassy what do you really know about the intricacies of dealing with such matters? What types of action are the authorities engaged in behind the scenes that the media cannot access? We have no idea how many cases the Canadian government is dealing with at present. There may be a line-up of women in Saudi Arabia all claiming similar events and wishing for help. Nazia may just be better at grabbing media attention.
There is plenty in the articles and Nazia's account of the details to suggest that she did go to Saudi Arabia willingly (duped by her parents, but not forced or kidnapped) and that she could have avoided this situation had she used her critical thinking skills. She could have made duplicates of her ID documents and left them with her boyfriend, for instance. She could have stored her documents in a safety deposit box perhaps. Again, it was her responsibility to understand how the authorities in Saudi Arabia conduct business. If one knows that a country treats women as second-class citizens, or disrespects international law, one doesn't go there.

She did not go to Saudi Arabia. She went to Dubai and was *kidnapped*.

"Kidnapped" may be a bit strong. She was persuaded to go to Saudi Arabia by her father who she trusted but that trust was betrayed. Maybe that does qualify as kidnapping by our standards but apparently it's hunky-dory by Saudi standards. That's why I think the Canadian consulate should be doing something on her behalf - a Canadian citizen is being forced to live and work under conditions that were not of her choosing and would not be allowed to exist in Canada.

I know consular wheels can turn slowly but I would consider 3 months slow, 2 years with no indication of any effort at all is callous indifference and is unacceptable.

If she ever gets out of Saudi Arabia and back into Canada, I hope she seeks a human rights lawyer and sues the Canadian Government.

I went back to read The Coast article again to see if I missed something to support your concerns that Canadian authorities are not doing enough. There's nothing in the article that states she was kidnapped or was forced to go to Saudi Arabia by anyone. She apparently believed her supposedly abusive parents and left her boyfriend in Dubai. Why? Dah!
There are inconsistencies in her story that lead me to doubt that we are getting the full truth. For example, in her own telling of the story she says she was planning on marrying this boyfriend ASAP, yet in The Coast article she is quoted as saying she is too young to marry.

From Nazia's telling of her story: As my boyfriend’s dad was staying with my boyfriend that time in Dubai, I had given him his dad’s number as well. His dad had threatened the Canadian Embassy that he would ruin his own son’s life if he ever got married to me and that he wouldn’t mind going to jail if he has to.
The Canadian Embassy backed out at this point and told me that it’s my choice whether I want to go or not. They didn’t bother helping me after that point. I requested them also to order my father to return me back my Canadian passport which they did but only for a certain time period. After that, my dad took it back again and threatened to kill me if I ever approached the embassy again.

There's a threat being made to the Canadian Embassy here. And we're suppose to believe this wasn't taken seriously?
Then there appears to be an opportunity where she had her passport back yet she didn't use it to get back to Canada.

Please, give us a break, and don't be such push overs. There are plenty of scam artists out there trying to swindle our government out of our tax dollars. I do not believe this woman's story.

Originally Posted by Rationella

I went back to read The Coast article again to see if I missed something to support your concerns that Canadian authorities are not doing enough. There's nothing in the article that states she was kidnapped or was forced to go to Saudi Arabia by anyone. She apparently believed her supposedly abusive parents and left her boyfriend in Dubai. Why? Dah!

The article just says "her father took her"; the "forced" bit came from her account:

They had taken me to India for 3 months and then brought me here to Riyadh, Saudi Arabia forcefully on an Indian passport where they had all this time taken away all my Canadian Id's my Canadian passport (which they almost succeeded in burning had I not picked it up from the gas stove), my University degrees, my student Id's etc.

Originally Posted by Rationella

There are inconsistencies in her story that lead me to doubt that we are getting the full truth. For example, in her own telling of the story she says she was planning on marrying this boyfriend ASAP, yet in The Coast article she is quoted as saying she is too young to marry.

Hmm. It's possible that she was gung-ho to marry in 2007 but had changed her mind between then and her 2010 interview for the article, but I do agree that this seems inconsistent.

Originally Posted by Rationella

There's a threat being made to the Canadian Embassy here. And we're suppose to believe this wasn't taken seriously?

What would you expect them to do? And how would you know if they had taken it seriously? The Embassy has said that they can't comment on the case because of privacy concerns.

Originally Posted by Rationella

Then there appears to be an opportunity where she had her passport back yet she didn't use it to get back to Canada.

That's the whole point of the story: a passport alone isn't enough for her to leave. She also needs an exit visa, which has to be signed by her father.

Originally Posted by Rationella

Please, give us a break, and don't be such push overs. There are plenty of scam artists out there trying to swindle our government out of our tax dollars. I do not believe this woman's story.

Exactly what do you think she stands to gain by this?

Frankly, my support for her case has nothing to do with her testimony. At its core, I see this as a matter of two key issues:

- except for people who are legally imprisoned or something like that, everybody has the right to leave whatever country they find themselves in.
- every citizen of Canada has the right to return to Canada.

These two points aren't dependent on anything about her motives to going to Saudi Arabia, her intentions toward her boyfriend, what she plans to do when she returns to Canada, or anything but two things:

- Is she currently able to leave Saudi Arabia? No.
- is she a Canadian citizen? Yes.

Regardless of your feelings about Nazia Quazi as a person, do you think that either of these two points are subject to doubt?