The Big Bang is evidence for the existence of the supernatural

I have often heard creationists say that everything in existence must have been caused by something else thus leading to a chain of causes all the way to God Himself. To which atheists respond, “Then what caused God to be in existence?” But this passage from a prominent Christian theologian refutes this common atheist counter to creationism.”

“For instance, it is a mistake to view everything as needing a cause, for in this case there would be an infinity of causes and even God would need a cause. Only limited, changing, contingent things need causes. Once one arrives at an unlimited, unchanging, necessary being, there is no longer any need for a cause. The finite must be caused, but the infinite being would be uncaused.”

Furthermore. . . . .

Since the Big Bang definitely demonstrates the beginning of all time for Nature, that is (the universe, the closed box/system of everything). And being that time began because of a definite beginning (The Big Bang) therefore infinity, that without beginning or end, cannot exist within Nature itself but rather must exist beyond Nature. Within Nature everything is in relation to everything else, everything is interdependent, nothing is independent of the system as a whole, nothing can be truly added or taken away. Therefore within Nature things must exist as spontaneously regenerating patterns and designs, including life. Nothing save that which is outside Nature can operate independently of the system as a whole. Nothing except for mankind with his freewill which enables him to act independently of the system as a whole. Freewill cannot emerge from this system because it is independence in a system of total interdependence. Therefore, freewill, like the causation of time and Nature, is beyond time and Nature, it is not Natural but supernatural. Since mankind has freewill which is supernatural, he is therefore at least partly supernatural. Mankind is therefore both Natural and supernatural, the body and the spirit.

A lot of that just seems like mumbo jumbo to me.

What the prominent Christian theologian does is is fall into the god of the gaps argument. His logic seems fine - although hardly proof until he inserts the word 'being'. Why does there have to be a being? Why can't the phenomenon of either our Universe (the expanding and collapse theory) be infinite or our universe be part of a bigger metaverse? Still no need for a 'being'. Typical theist approach of starting with a conclusion and ensuring the arguments all reach it.

With regard to infinity. It quite clearly exists in nature. What's the highest number you can think of? Add one. Ad infinitum. Pi and circles are pretty natural - both examples of infinity.

And I'm pretty certain evolution gives a pretty good account of the development of so called 'free will' (or the ability to choose)

Originally Posted by rybak303

I have often heard creationists say that everything in existence must have been caused by something else thus leading to a chain of causes all the way to God Himself. To which atheists respond, “Then what caused God to be in existence?” But this passage from a prominent Christian theologian refutes this common atheist counter to creationism.”

“For instance, it is a mistake to view everything as needing a cause, for in this case there would be an infinity of causes and even God would need a cause. Only limited, changing, contingent things need causes. Once one arrives at an unlimited, unchanging, necessary being, there is no longer any need for a cause. The finite must be caused, but the infinite being would be uncaused.”

That's all fine and good, but at the same time it undermines the First Cause argument. Once you introduce the idea that causes can exist uncaused, then the whole thing falls apart.

Originally Posted by rybak303

Furthermore. . . . .

Since the Big Bang definitely demonstrates the beginning of all time for Nature, that is (the universe, the closed box/system of everything).

No, it doesn't. The Big Bang represents a "wall", beyond which we can't see. When you make pronouncements about what's beyond it (e.g. by saying that it's definitely "the beginning of all time"), you're just making stuff up.

Originally Posted by rybak303

And being that time began because of a definite beginning (The Big Bang) therefore infinity, that without beginning or end, cannot exist within Nature itself but rather must exist beyond Nature. Within Nature everything is in relation to everything else, everything is interdependent, nothing is independent of the system as a whole, nothing can be truly added or taken away. Therefore within Nature things must exist as spontaneously regenerating patterns and designs, including life. Nothing save that which is outside Nature can operate independently of the system as a whole. Nothing except for mankind with his freewill which enables him to act independently of the system as a whole. Freewill cannot emerge from this system because it is independence in a system of total interdependence. Therefore, freewill, like the causation of time and Nature, is beyond time and Nature, it is not Natural but supernatural. Since mankind has freewill which is supernatural, he is therefore at least partly supernatural. Mankind is therefore both Natural and supernatural, the body and the spirit.

Define "free will". Now demonstrate that you actually have it.

It isn't really worth going into the other problems with your argument until we get those points out of the way.

Penguin (and all),

It is an important point that the Big Bang not be viewed as the begining of all existence. Thinking of it like a wall is a great analogy. The Big Bang may be the begining of our visible universe, but the may be others, there may be more to this universe than we can see, and there may be another existence that goes beyond what we know. So I think that the universe needing a cause is nothing more than saying just that. It needed a cause, so what? Doesn't mean it had to be god. The universe may have popped into existence in a reality that doesnt require causality at all. I can think of an infinitude of possiblities with only an ifinitelt small slice representing those realities containing a theistic god.